OVER 45 HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS DETAINED TODAY by indy 12:26pm Tue Aug 5 '03 At approximately 7am this morning, Palestinian, Israeli, and international human rights activists were detained while attempting to block the demolition of part of a Palestinian familyג€™s home, near the village of Mas'ha. FROM PALESTINE, ISRAEL, U.S., U.K., ITALY, SWEDEN, FRANCE, DENMARK, IRELAND, GERMANY AND CANADA At approximately 7am this morning, Palestinian, Israeli, and international human rights activists were detained while attempting to block the demolition of part of a Palestinian familyג€™s home, near the village of Mas'ha. The building that had been slated for demolition by the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) - because it lay in the path of Israelג€™s controversial Separation Wall - is now being destroyed. Detainees are being held at Ariel Prison in Israel. Their names are now being given to the Ministry of Interior. Please flood the Ministry of Interior and Ariel prison with calls demanding the immediate release of all detainees without threat of deportation. Nationalities of Detainees: Canada: 1 Denmark: 1 France: 2 Germany: 2 Ireland: 1 Israel: 4 Italy: 7 Japan: 1 Palestine: 3 Sweden: 4 United Kingdom: 6 United States: 13 World Citizen with no nationality: 1 If you are calling from outside Israel, the country code is 972 and drop the first zero from the phone number. Ministry of Interior: 02 670 1648 +972 2 670 1648 Ariel Prison General Info: 03 906 5444 +972 3 906 5444 Ariel Prison Officer - Ami Baran and Haim Fadlan: 03 906 5406 and 03 906 5416 +972 3 906 5406 or +972 3 906 5416 ** OVER 45 HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS DETAINED TODAY ** FROM PALESTINE, ISRAEL, U.S., U.K., ITALY, SWEDEN, FRANCE, DENMARK, IRELAND, GERMANY AND CANADA add your comments

No human rights activists were arrester by Slim 12:44pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment They are all pro-Palestinian activists. There wasn't a bono fide peace activist or human rights activist in the group. add your comments

More on situation in Mascha by * 1:28pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment GUSH SHALOM pob 3322, Tel-Aviv 61033 www.gush-shalom.org August 5, 2003 [We have been celebrating too early when we thought that the home of Hani and Munira Amer and their six children would be spared encirclement by The Wall...] With bulldozers less than 10 meters away from the threatened house at Mes'ha, the army is right now arresting the 40 international and Israeli peace activists who spent the night there - among them Oren Medicks of Gush Shalom, and CO Dror Boymel and five other Israelis. Other activists are from the US, Britain, France, Italy, Germany Sweden and Japan. The activists who sit in a circle singing are dragged one by one. An effort is under way to organize a new group to go there. In case you want to join, contact Dorothy 09-9584804, 054-507804 phone of the Ariel Police Station: +972-3-906-5530 (Prisoner information) +972-3-903-5444 (General information) +972-50-374-237 (Ariel police spokesman) Gush Shalom Spokesperson Adam Keller +972-3-5565804 / +972-3-5590321 / +972-56-709603 add your comments

Slim by Rafah Kid 5:29pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment So Pro Palestinian can't mean Pro Peace? add your comments

pro palestinian v. human rights activist by mel 6:24pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment In response to the comment that there were no "bona fide" peace or human rights activists there, only those who were "pro palestine" : certainly those things are NOT mutually exclusive. add your comments

Not mutually exclusive by Ko 7:04pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment At least 36 of them were with the ISM, so they are automatically eliminated. The other nine... add your comments

Peace in action by Blind_guy 7:37pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment in response to ISM not containing peace makers. I know many of those arrested this morning, I went through the ISM training with some of them. And many of them were pacifists and all of them were peaceful. Maybe you don't understand the impacts of the wall but its a pretty big deal to isolate one house between a settlement and a giant 8 meter high concrete wall that doesn't even follow the green line. Now maybe you define peace as making sure every Israeli can live comfortable and forget the fact that they have abused and driven people from thier land and homes "because god told us we could." But the people I know who sit in Ariel believed in peace, true peace for all people... and sniper towers have never been a recipe for peace. For more information on the wall, as well as good maps, visit: www.pengon.org. add your comments

..it is all about propaganda by goldberg 8:14pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment ...the ism is an arm of the terrorist palestinian movement.the pacifists and the other well meaning people are all dupes. they should all rot in jail. add your comments

List of Detainees by - 8:48pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment List of Detainees: Internationals: Ulrika, Sweden. Vedrana, Sweden. Matthew, UK. Sarah, Italy. Simona, Italy. Mauro, Italy. Byorn, Sweden. Simone, Italy. Eva, Germany. Moa, Sweden. Maria, Sweden. Laura, US. Soledad, Canada. Veronique, France. Lorenza, Italy. Abigale, US. Abe, US. Matthew, UK. Courtney, US. Rosario, Italy. Ed, UK. Terry, Ireland. Frank, US. Kosar, UK. Sarah, Italy. Joe, US. Lysander, US. Daniel, Denmark. Garrick, US. Erica, Italy. Ryan, US. Carol, US. Phil, UK. Robin, UK. Joesette, France. Laura, Italy. Maria, Germany. Palestine/Mascha: Saif, Palestinian. Nazeh, Mas'ha. Israel: Aril, Israel. Oren, Israel. Dror, Israel. It is believed there is one more person from Israel (perhaps two). No charges have yet been made, but we have heard that at least three... one Israeli, one Palestinian and one Italian may be arrested. In addition, Neta has called and said that the army/police are back out at Mas'ha and have detained eight more Israelis, including Neta herself, Rony, Boaz, Rothna, Roten, Nora, Daniella. add your comments

Goldberg is a Propagandist and Dupe by ISM Supports Justice and Peace 9:36pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment The thread thoughout Goldberg's writing is that anything related to Palestinian = Terrorist, therefore ISM = terrorist, or ISM = terrorist propagandist or dupe. Goldberg is unable to understand or admit that intelligent, principled, committed people could have valid objections to Israeli policies that they choose to act on, nonviolently. Instead he demonizes all Palestinians, and then all ISMers as dupes and propagandists. ISMers are for peace, peace with justice. As one person just wrote: "Now maybe you define peace as making sure every Israeli can live comfortable and forget the fact that they have abused and driven people from thier land and homes "because god told us we could." But the people I know who sit in Ariel believed in peace, true peace for all people... and sniper towers have never been a recipe for peace." We don't support the kind of peace that some advocate, which is equivalent to subjugation, dominance and crushing Palestinian rights. ISM is working closely with Israelis and Israeli groups, as is clear from reading about those involved and arrested. We are able to see the complexity of Israeli society and recognize that not all Israelis support or even understand what their government is doing as it builds a wall miles from the Green Line through palestinian villages and farmland to annex the settlements and render a true peace impossible. Unfortunately, Goldberg is unable or incapable of seeing similar complexity, of recognizing the humanity of the other side. Since he views every Palestinian as a terrorist, those who work non-violently against the injustice of the Wall are guilty simply by association with Palestinians. Goldberg's way of stereotyping entire people's and groups is racist, a form of racism that we should all speak out against, whether it is committed by Israelis, Palestinians or internationals. The only unanswered question is whether Goldberg has been willfully duped into holding these views, or is a victim of a larger system of propaganda. But Goldberg is very clearly a propagandist for a system of oppression. add your comments

leave the state of Israel alone by Jone 10:53pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment Most of you are lier and terrist love. Just get out of the state Israel. add your comments

in answer to the ism supporter by goldberg 11:57pm Tue Aug 5 '03 print comment ...there is a war....it is because the arab and moslem people can not and will not accept the presence of israel. it is a war which the arabs can lose time after time after time, and the israelis can lose only once.while this war is going on ALL PALESTINIANS ARE THE ENEMY....with very few exceptions.....you are all potential killers of my grandchidren......what i am trying to do, is to point these facts out to the pointy-headed fuzzy minded jews and others who populate this web-site. add your comments

Goldberg = Hamas by ISM Supporter 2:42am Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment For Goldberg, its a war, and all Palestinians are the enemy, because Arabs will never accept the existance of Israel (Apparently we are to leave aside the existing peace treaties with Jordan and Egypt, and the Saudi/Arab proposal for a comprehensive peace). To Hamas, its a war, and all Israelis are acceptable targets. The Zionists will never allow Palestinians to live in peace on their own land. The two are mirror images of one other. The other side is the enemy, with no distinctions. Each blames the other for its own violence, saying it is compelled to such actions by the violence of the other side. Neither is able to see the complexity or humanity of the other side. Each perpetuates the violence, only seeing hope in the complete destruction of the other. It's sad, but true. Let's all reject Goldberg and Hamas, recognize one anothers' humanity, and continue to work together, nonviolently - Palestinians, Israelis and internationals - to take down the wall, end the occupation and build a common future that is both peaceful and just, for Palestinians and Israelis, for Muslims, Jews and Christians. add your comments

CAN'T REJECT GOLDBERG by Mutter 5:24am Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment Sorry but you can't reject Goldberg. In many ways, he enters this stream the least deluded of our zany zionists. Maybe we could sell him to science for a THICKNESS of the brain study, but he is here in dialogue and that is of some value. It's simply NOT your land, Goldberg. And Israel can not bully it away and expect to live in peace. The olive trees are not your olive trees. The water is not your water. Peace requires acting peacefully and NOT taking away the homes nor the men women and children who live there. Your grandchildren's future safety depends upon THAT and ONLY that. Your way has not worked. It is time to find better way Nor, should you make little of those who have a better than the daily threat. They are the hope of your granchildren. The stakes are high and YOU have much too much to lose in going down fighting for a facist state. Yes, you can nuke 'em but you nuke you grandchildren as well. Because of YOU, your enemy has much much less to lose...almost nothing. Upon THAT very dangerous premise kingdoms have been lost and in this you are a Fool; being played the further Fool by your political allegiance to violence. YOU are expendable to your politick. Join us in peace and be worth more. Give higher value to all children, including YOUR children. Israel should willingly bulldoze all illegal Israeli settlements and/or pay rent and Israel should do this FOR your grandchildren and future grandchildren. Mutter add your comments

Pro-Palestinian AND Pro-Peace by Jim from Australia 9:11am Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment Whats wrong with being pro-Palestinian? I was pro-African-American in the civil rights struggle. I was pro-ANC in the struggle against Apartheid. I was pro-East Timorese in their struggle against Indonedian occupation, pro-Irish in their struggle against British occupation and pro-Tibetan in their struggle against Chinese occupation. I have never advocated violence but I recognize the right of an occupied, oppressed and subjugated people to resist brutal occupation. Dismantle the settlements, tear down the wall, end the occupation, leave Palestinians to form their own sovereign state and allow the refugees to rightfully return to the place of their birth. Then and only then will the state of Israel be given legitimacy by the international community. P.S. The only war heros in Israel are the ones who have refused to serve in the territories. We think of them often. add your comments

Thanks for the bio Jim by Slamdan 10:26am Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment Other than the stupid stuff you say about yourself, there is nothing in your post I couldn't read on the ISM website or on any of hundreds of things written by other ISM zombies. When you wake up from whatever spell they cast on you, let us know. Then we'll explain your errors in thinking. I don't believe you are capable of hearing a word in your current state. add your comments

Too bad by John Veldhuis 12:17pm Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment Too bad not all Israeli's are like Goldberg or Slamdan. To advocate the destruction of the state of Israel would make real sense, then... Too bad there are nice, humane Israeli's. But how to save Israel from this settler gang? I have no answer, besides that the people of Israel should start to understand that keeping on with protecting the settlers is counterproductive for both Israels economy and security. Besides, do we really have to wait for an Israeli F.W. de Klerk, do we really have to wait for a Palestinian Nelson Mandela? I am afraid the existance of such people even would make no difference anymore. What (maybe) could help now is the US recognition that "Israel security" does not equal "settler security", and that really all the money that Israel spends on them gets deducted from the funding Israel is getting from the US. add your comments

A realist is NOT a terrorist by Debi 12:43pm Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment Reading the comments on this page, it is no wonder the conflict has gone on for so long.... 99% of all the Israeli people commenting seem to be a scary combination of arrogant and ignorant, in addition to followers of the infamous Bush theory "You are either with us or against us". They cant seem to accept the fact that rational, decent human beings don't like bullies...... It's pure and simple - nothing more, nothing less. People don't like bullies at schools, at work or occupying a country, whether it be South Africa or Palestine. In February 2 million people marched in London, England for Iraq and at least 75% of them were also carrying banners against the occupation of Palestine. Are you trying to say that all those people are terrorists as well? Maybe those who think that all peace activists are terrorists, should spend just one day living on the other side of the fence. And let them experience the humiliation, inconvenience and just plain hatred that normal men, women and children have to experience everyday. No, I am not with the ISM or an activist.... I simply don't like bullies or cowards, who feel the only way to get what they want is by bullying. And yes, I did experience the humiliation,inconvenience and hatred myself when I was there last year for a 2 week holiday. From taking 5 hours to travel a 10 minute journey in 42 degrees, to not being allowed in to various towns to 4 hours of complete degredation at the airport when I left.... And my crime? I visited friends who lived on the wrong side of the fence! add your comments

just some from ism by doesnt matter 6:01pm Wed Aug 6 '03 yunis@gmx.de print comment i just met some members of ism - talked to them a while - so maybe 3 or 4 said that just 600.000 jews got killed in the shoa and that all jews have to leave palestine in a hurry - something like: we'll throw them into the sea... the other thing: this people from ism i spoke with, never talked about israelis they just use the word: JEWS... so they dont accept the state of israel too. ok, this is just my experience with 3 or 4 people from ism - doesnt mean that ism is supporter of terrorists, but it's really strange add your comments

Where did you meet them? Who were they? by Peter Kropotkin 6:19pm Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment I am most interested in hearing more about your experience with the people from ISM. Could you be a little more specific. Where did you meet these people? How do you know they were in ISM? When were they in the region? What cities did they stay in? Why did they talk to you? How long did you talk for? What were their names? What country, city are they from? Thanks so much for giving us more information than you did in your original comment. add your comments

Talking to Likudniks by Eyal 6:25pm Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment A week ago, I talked to a group of people who said they were Likudniks and that they think the present government is the best. They said that the Palestinians who live in greater Israel are better off than they would be under some 'Pig Nazi Arab dictator' (that is the words they used), and they should be happy to clean our toilets and build our houses but they weren't even grateful for what we gave them, and that transfer would be too good for them and if they don't leave by will, will beat them and torture them and more if necessary to get them off our land. That is what they told me. add your comments

More Info by ISMer 8:27pm Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment Hi Yunis, If you met people saying that type of thing with ISM, my experience is that is not at all typical at all of ISMers. Could you clarify where you met them ? General nationalities ? Could some of that also be an English language issue, i.e., were you speaking in English and English is not their first language ? add your comments

An Additional Point by ISMer 8:36pm Wed Aug 6 '03 print comment About 25% of ISMers are Jewish, and in addition to that approximately 25% that are non-Israeli Jews, an increasing number of Israelis are getting involved. So the types of comments that Yunis mentioned should be rare. add your comments

platitudes as opposed to facts by jsuslovich 1:24am Fri Aug 8 '03 print comment It is hard to argue against platitudes. All can agree that peace is good, that bullies are bad, that not all Palestinians are evil, that not all Israelis are paragons of virtue, that it is not right to take away someone else's land, etc. But the real world is not made of simple choices. To cut someone with a knife is bad - unless you are a surgeon trying to save his life. To kill someone is bad - but not in self defense. To take someone's land is bad - but not if that will save innocent lives and who decides to whom the land belongs. When a group takes action in support of only one side in a conflict then it means that they have decided that only that side has any justice to it. (or that they don't really care) Have any "peace advocates" tried to close down a Palestinian bomb factory? Have they demonstrated against Arafat paying for bombs? Have they demonstrated against the Iraqi cleric who ordered that any one who sells land to a Jew be killed (keep in mind that there has been a large Jewish population in Araq since well before Islam and the Arab empire came into being)? Have they protested the Jordanian law that allows citizenship to any one except a Jew? Have they demonstrated in favor of the return in Hebron of the land that belonged to Jews before the massacres of the 1920s? Have they demonstrated in front of Hamas headquarters when Hamas makes a statement that they will never allow any Jews to stay in Palestine and emphasizes its point by firing a few missiles into Israeli towns hoping to kill someone (anyone)? Why not? I have exchanged comments with more than one "peace activist" on this web site. When the lack of logic of their pious staemetns is exposed, they have been forced to concede that their position is really that there should be no Jews allowed in Israel. If they recognized two legitimate albeit conflicting claims then they would have to admit that Israel has on numerous occassions offered to share the land only to have the offer thrown back in its face along wiht a dose of fire and blood. Should Israel build the fence? Perhaps you don't remember that the fence was (and still is ) opposed by the fervent right wing in Israel as being the creation of a de facto PAlestinian state. It was the left that wanted it as a way to stop attacks into Israel without massive occupation of the west bank. Do you have a better idea? And don't suggest that a unilateral removal of all Jewish towns in the West bank would do the trick. There were constant Arab attacks against Israel when the west bank was controlled by Jordan. Not to mention the question of rights. There were Jewish "settlements" in the west bank before 1948 - they were all destroyed by the Arabs (I am not using the word Palestinians because in those days there was no such thing).Why should the west bank be judenrein. Isn't that apartheid? The problem is that many of the Arabs do not see peace as a goal - only victory. Even now the during the three month ceasefire one constantly hears: "If you don't release all the prisoners we will go back to killing you. If you don't allow Arafat free rein - Ditto. never mind that this was not part of the "road map". It's: Do what we want or else. Why don't you get the Palestinians to reject war and accept peace - even if they have to COMPROMISE and accept less than they would like to have. If that ever happened any Israeli Prime Minister that refused to go along would be voted out of office so fast you wouldn't have time to organize a demonstration against him. Why aren't ISMers truly peace activists? Because they aren't doing any thing that could conceivably lead to peace. They just want the Palistinian Arabs not to suffer while their leaders and neighbors are busy killing Jews. add your comments

Picked one out by John Veldhuis 11:37am Fri Aug 8 '03 print comment "Perhaps you don't remember that the fence was (and still is ) opposed by the fervent right wing in Israel as being the creation of a de facto PAlestinian state." Well, that is not the reason why they opposed it. They opposed it because it would establish a de facto *Israeli* border on the green line. Which would mean a return of Israel to the '67 border. Which they don't like. Now with the settlements planned inside it, it constitutes a de-facto border more to their liking. Now if only the PA could keep quiet the people outside the walls for you, that would make things even more perfect. add your comments

focus just one point by yunis 2:05am Mon Aug 11 '03 print comment i just talked about my experience with some! people from ISM. They said they are with ism - they talked about being in jail because of their activities last week. it doesnt matter, where they are from - the matter is, that this people do not accept the state of israel and do not even think about what palestinians are doing this time. every bombing by a palestinian is because of israel, because of the idf, because of a destroyed house - so what??? just israelis or in the language of these ism-people are responsible? Always? and: i dont care if there are 10 or 25 or 50% jews with ism - i care about the state of israel too. and sure peace is the only way - the question is just, if the peace these 4 people are fighting for is a peace for both sides... add your comments

Where did you meet them Yunis by Interested 8:08am Mon Aug 11 '03 print comment Where did you meet them? In Tel-Aviv, in Jerusalem? At a pub? What were their names if you know? Were they European or American? add your comments

i met by yunis 5:06pm Mon Aug 11 '03 yunis@gmx.de print comment them in jerusalem. and two of them were from europe (italy and spain) and two americans. add your comments

Ok...more by interested 5:22pm Mon Aug 11 '03 print comment At a pub? How did you get into the discussion? Are you israeli? Did you lead the witness? What were their names? add your comments

to "interested" by fs 8:31pm Mon Aug 11 '03 print comment Why are you so fixated on their precise identities? Do you want to bring them in for more training on the proper line to present to outsiders? add your comments

No, I want to verify authenticity by Interested 9:38pm Mon Aug 11 '03 print comment The statements are way to general and without any sense of really having taken place. I want to get to the meat of the discussion to understand who these people are, if they are from ISM I want to find out who and tell them they are foolish idiots for what they think and should be embarassed. But I have my serious doubts that the conversation took place in the first place, and if so that they were ISM. add your comments

diskussion took place by yunis 11:53pm Mon Aug 11 '03 print comment the diskussion took place - i mean you dont have to believe it - i will not give names and i'll not give a place except that it was in jerusalem and i told this people allready, that their way of thinking is more than bullshit - you dont have to do this again. and: maybe i dont give names and a place because even there are some stupid people from ism,ism does also a good work hope you'll understand this and: why it's important if i'm israeli? add your comments

"Palestinian Land" by Jerome Turner 9:32pm Tue Aug 12 '03 print comment When have the territories been Palestinian land? Prior to '67, the West Bank and Gaza were occupied by Jordan and Egypt respectively. Prior to '48, it was British Mandate. Of course, only after '67 was there any shred of Palestinian nationalism. Funny, that... add your comments