IS THERE A "RIGHT OF RETURN"? by Amir 2:06am Fri May 9 '03 Some point on the "Right of return" issue that the "Palestinians" always come up with. print article IS THERE A "RIGHT OF RETURN"? 1) Voluntary flight: As documented by Professor Efraim Karsh, the vast majority of refugees from the 1948 war were exhorted to do so by their Arab brethren, who urged them to make way for oncoming Arab armies intent on driving the Jews into the sea. Karsh estimates that only 5 to 10 percent were actively expelled by Israelis. 2) No legal basis: As documented by Professor Ruth Lapidoth, the claim to a Palestinian refugee "right of return" lacks basis under a) general international conventions, b) major UN resolutions, and c) relevant agreements between the two parties. 3) Regional precedent: At the time of the creation of the State of Israel, a similar number of Jews were expelled and dispossessed by Arab governments. The Arab states have never made any effort to compensate these Jews, who were absorbed by Israel. Despite having tremendous resources to do so, Arab states have refused to absorb the Palestinian refugees and have often worked to ensure they remain in poverty so as to use them as a political tool against Israel. 4) Effective destruction of Israel: Even diehard Israeli peaceniks such as writer Amos Oz acknowledge that "implementing the 'right of return' means eradicating Israel... It will make the Jewish people a minor ethnic group at the mercy of Muslims, a 'protected minority,' just as fundamentalist Islam would have it"; Oz's colleague A.B. Yehoshua states that the end of the Palestinians' tragedy will come when they cease focusing on returning to their homes in Israel proper and focus instead on returning to a Palestinian homeland. add your comments

Dear amir: by nonesense1 2:38am Fri May 9 '03 print comment The Arab states have never made any effort to compensate these Jews, who were absorbed by Israel. No, but the Jewish government has. Our government was forced to pay compensation to Iraqi Jews who were murdered and maimed in Iraqi synagouges as a ploy to get them to flee to Palestine... The suit was settled out of court to avoid embarassing attention the case could have garnered.The Jewish Arabs in Israel are a minority that suffers prejudices in many aspects of their daily lives. Culturally, they are Arabic and enjoyed better vocational opportunities in their former homeland. It is when they "moved" to Israel that prejudice welcomed them. They were brought here to fulfill a void in the cheap labor market as zionist were not fond of employing the gentile work force. That is the awful truth of the romantic ideals your post sets forth.. add your comments

selective memory by pete 2:44am Fri May 9 '03 print comment Funny isn't it how Zionists award themselves a 'right to return' to a place where they have never been, have no legal basis on which to expel the indigenous people, and then ridicule the not unnatural wish for people to reclaim the homes and land from which they were cleansed by the terrorist Israeli gangs. Of course you can quote some Zionist historians who try and retrospectively justify the brutality they inflicted on the villagers and farmers, but most historians, even Israeli ones, recognise the forced expulsion of the people who lived there in order to give their possessions to the incoming European Jews. How would you like to be dispossessed of your home, then go back 40 years later to find American colonisers sitting in it, as if they had bought it or acquired it legally? But of course such injustice won't bother people like you. add your comments

s by d 3:28am Fri May 9 '03 print comment Efraim Karsh, Amos Oz A.B. Yehoshua and that other obscure person you have mentioned are clear examples of revisionists. They are the un-official spokepersons of the Zionist machine which is why they are on the mainstream... i respect you, I have read some of your posts and you remind me of my self prior to putting down the revisionist literature. Until you too are exhausted from defending the indefensible and content to have others do the thinking for you- you will remain a spokesperson for the country. add your comments

Tips for you: by Hello ami. 3:59am Fri May 9 '03 print comment when contributing a pro-Israel post, it is good to follow the following guidlines if you are to influence the readership of the forum. First -make an effort to avoid sounding biased, ie Pepper your commentary with Truth, so that we don't dismiss you offhand. 2nd- Don't avoid quoting Palestinian sources, that way you will leave us with the impression that you thought long and hard before arriving at your stated conclusion. 3rd- keep the posts to a minimum. Thank you/ add your comments

Right of Return Revisited by David 5:29am Fri May 9 '03 print comment If the problem is that Palestinians should have a state with a Palestinian Moslem Arab dominant majority and control, and that Jews should NOT have these rights, then the logical answer is to force Israel to accept large numbers of Palestinians into Israel. BUT if one accepts the premise that both Jews and Palestinians are entitled to self-determination, then the solution is that each have a state, side by side, in part of their historic homeland, and that each government controls its own immigration. Sadly,Moslem Arabs states have historically opposed (often violently) Kurdish, Armenian, Copt, Druze or Jewish attempts to exercise rights of national self determination. Palestinians, Jews or other site participants who don't think Jews (or other minorities) the same rights to which they believe Egyptians, Quebecois, Palestinians etc. are entitled, should declare it openly and be willing to defend their position. add your comments

make Jews live on the remaining 10 % by and leave the remainder to The Original 6:19am Fri May 9 '03 print comment Israel should be allowed to retain 20% of historical Palestine; and have a jewish majority there while Palestinians should be allowed to return to live on the remaining 80% of their former land. Anybody who finds the above remedy to the current conflict as anything but fair is an antisemitic bigot and should be held accountable by the Jewish Defence League. add your comments

To David, by If your premis was right than your ideas rega 6:55am Fri May 9 '03 print comment David, you are a classic victim of the trapping of zionism. I assume you are a Jew... so I'll reffer to you in the following commentary. Zionism cannot survive without our support yet we can survive without it. It is based on False premises which is why it is always on the attack against those who speak the Truth! The defensive shield is the seal of solomon, recently known as the star of david. The hexagram is A satanic symbol- open any whitchcraft manual to see for yourself. In German it is called "rothschild", and those bearing that name are known magicians The question is why do they need so much protection from their perceived enemies. the answer to that is as simple as : those who hunt Always feel hunted. THEY ARE JUSTIFIED IN FEELING HUNTED BECAUSE EVERY PERSON THEY LOOK AT IS A VICTIM OF THEIRS/ add your comments

No call for antisemitism by Alana 6:43pm Fri May 9 '03 print comment You read the subject line right and, no, I am not a Zionist. What does satanism and the rothschilds have to do with anything? Go back to your protocols and leave us in peace. More seriously, I am struck in these debates by a total absence of the idea of a democratic, secular state of its people. add your comments

You are right Alana by Miri 8:05pm Fri May 9 '03 print comment Of course, the idea of a secular, democratic State for all the inhabitants of a certain territory ("country"), disregarding religion or ethnic procedence here is unthinked of. Something that is perfectly natural in any other country of the world here sounds subversive. add your comments