Former Israeli soldiers return to occupied territories to give aid by Sheera Frenkel in the Independent / UK 12:47pm Sun Jun 29 '03 The former conscript says that while he often felt "a slight guilt or doubt" while in uniform, he followed orders because of "peer pressure". It was only afterwards, when he was at university with a conscientious objector, or refusenik, that he considered joining a peace movement. print article Former Israeli soldiers return to occupied territories to give aid By Sheera Frenkel 29 June 2003 Thousands of Israeli military conscripts and reservists have spent time in the occupied territories, especially since the beginning of the current intifada 33 months ago. Many are disturbed by what they see while in uniform. But only a handful do what Moti Kimtel has done - return as aid workers. Three years ago Mr Kimtel was patrolling in Gaza with his battalion. Now he teaches irrigation and farming techniques to Palestinians, but he is constantly reminded of his service there as a soldier. While working on an irrigation project he saw a women whose house he had searched after her son had been arrested as a terrorist suspect. "I don't know, maybe her son was a terrorist," he said. "It only bothers me that I followed orders I didn't even understand at the time. Now I work for peace in ways that I can understand. I feel better about everything I do." The former conscript says that while he often felt "a slight guilt or doubt" while in uniform, he followed orders because of "peer pressure". It was only afterwards, when he was at university with a conscientious objector, or refusenik, that he considered joining a peace movement. "I don't have the answers to all of Israel's problems," said Mr Kimtel, "but I was in the occupied territories as a soldier and now I am here as an activist. It feels like I am doing much more good here as an activist." Ronen Eidelman has worked with a number of peace organisations since leaving the army 10 years ago. After his compulsory service he did another two years before opting out of a military career. "When I was in Lebanon I did things that, looking back, I regret," he said. "I was part of a greater force that may have caused injustices against the Palestinians. Now I question if it was the right thing." Mr Eidelman helps to organise demonstrations and "teach-ins" which try to teach Palestinians and Israelis ways to work together. He regularly enters the inner zones of the occupied territories, from which Israeli civilians are banned by law, saying that if everyone followed the restrictions nothing would get done. "The Palestinians do not resent my being here, nor do they judge me for once being a soldier," he said. "They understand the Israeli mentality, how army service is a part of life and often goes unquestioned. They are just happy that now I choose to work for peace." Israeli men are called up for three years and women for 20 to 24 months but, in most circumstances, the men also have reserve obligations, which can last until they are 50. They can spend one or two months every year back in uniform - more in times of tension. Only a small percentage of Israelis refuse to do military service at all, which usually incurs a jail sentence. Others, including some who do aid work with Palestinians, refuse to serve in the occupied territories. As a rule the army accepts this, however reluctantly though those taking this option can expect "peer pressure". Bob Mark, an American who came to Israel in 1977, is a teacher in Neve Shalom, a village of Arabs and Jews who live and work together as a show of solidarity. He has come to support conscientious objection. "Let's say that I serve in the army," he said. "Even though I'm not directly involved in the occupied territories, I'm just taking the place of someone else so that they can go and serve in the territories. Either way I'm a part of what's going on in the territories. "The majority of people make excuses to get out of service, but what is important is people who go to court and simply say, I won't serve." That was the choice of Ariel, 21 who did not want his surname published. After his jail sentence he joined a peace organisation named Ta'ayush (Arabic for "life in common"). In his current project, Peace Camp, he is camped in front of a Palestinian village to prevent it being bulldozed. "There are some people here who once served in the army, but have changed their views since then," he said. "But we all respect them for having moved beyond the conditioning the army puts you through." www.independent.co.uk add your comments Source file

terrorists by goldberg 6:32pm Mon Jun 30 '03 print comment ...ok....so now your on the side of the terrorists, are you happy now? add your comments

Response to Goldberg by Seבn 7:11pm Mon Jun 30 '03 address: Ireland print comment The previous comment reveals a common Israeli trait - the branding of all Palestinians as terrorists. How does teaching irrigation techniques to farmers foster terrorism? A question can a non-jew (or a Palestinian) buy a house in a settlement? add your comments

Palestinians in Sttelments by paul in IL 4:55pm Tue Jul 1 '03 print comment Re your question if it is possible for non-jews or palestinians to buy houses in settelments. apparently there were some cases that IL-palestinans(christians) to buy a house in a settelment. This cases are reported from a settelment close to betlehem were the settlement is within the range of al-aqusa brigade snipers from the other side of the valley. houses which cost originaly around 150.000 USD were offered for about a third. other cases are known from some of the jerusalem settelments. here the houses were offered without having a security risk like descriped above. far as I know it depends in general on the settlers in that settelment if they allow non jews to buy property in there. add your comments

so the irishman has a complaint by goldberg 3:08am Wed Jul 2 '03 print comment ...as ireland was on the nazi side in ww2 ,and you have your own problems in northern ireland i would suggest you retire to your pub, hoist one,then tend to your own business. add your comments

answer to can a non jew buy in a settlement by j Suslovich 3:11am Wed Jul 2 '03 print comment A recent Israeli Suporeme Court case ordered that a Palestinian be allowed to buy a home in a new development that wanted to exclude him. Question: Can a jew buy a home in Jordan? I believe Jordanian law expressly prohibits Jews from becoming citizens, but perhaps it would theoretically allow them to live in Jordan as second class residents. Can a Jew buy a home in other Arab contries? A recent ruling of an influential cleric (according to the newspaper) ruled that any one selling to a Jew should be put to death. Will a jew be permitted to buy a home in a future Palestinian State? add your comments

To Goldberg by Deennaa 7:55pm Wed Jul 2 '03 print comment Israel, BEFORE it named itself that, was led by the Jewish Agency collaborators of NAZI LEADERSHIP. Your zion ists bargained a death bargain against their own Jewish peoples condemned to the death camps, by telling the Nazi leaders if their own Jewish people REFUSED to uphold the zion ist credo and beliefs, THEY COULD JUST FORGET ABOUT BEING RELEASED TO PALESTINE. "LET THEM DIE." And they did. Thank your earliest zion ists for killing their own. Oh, and you left out the REAL JEWS-Torah true rabbi's hunted down and murdered for INFORMING their own Jewish peoples of the LIE and TREACHERY and VIOLENCE and BLASPHEMY of the "new" man-made up" credo of ZION ISM! What an ignoramus you are. Here's what you can do: GO LEARN YOUR OWN HISTORY BEFORE YOU PUT YOUR IGNORANT FOOT IN YOUR IGNORANT MOUTH AND EMBARRASS YOURSELF. Where do you mindless robot zion ists get off with your numbskull accusations? I know. It's the flaw of your corrupt and GODLESS zion ism. You know, that zion ism that was as Herzl dreamed it up in his longing to be a nazi and an elite in his eastern european society. DO YOUR RESEARCH and shut up your racist blathering about the Irish. At least they have merriment in their pubs; theirs is not the dark, neurotic, paranoid and psychopathic energies as your demented "settlers" and their vacant mindsets of slobbering and cretinous violences of soulless actions; vampires of our century! Go TO YOUR OWN! Your commentary stunk with ignorance and, as usual, showed the racism that your zionist Israeli's seem to embody. Nothing progressing humanity with you....You are the only TRUE ANTI-SEMITES DIRTYING UP OUR WORLD. Go find out what that means. I spit your ignorance in your own face and REJECT your FALSE commentary. I REJECT YOU. add your comments

oh ..deennaa by goldberg 8:07pm Wed Jul 2 '03 print comment ..my my...how you rave...you must calm down,you wll blow a fuse with all this hatred,tell you what. why dont we all meet at that irish pub and have one merry time. all this politics has got to get us all so so thirsty. add your comments

Reality bites... by No-more! 9:36pm Wed Jul 2 '03 print comment I know from first hand Testiminoy that members of Palmach were instructed to gather Jewish europeans to move to Palestine. If the Jews were not interested in emigrating to Palestine, and instead were interested in startin' a new life in some other country, the palmachniks were instructed to leave them behind where they were thrown to the wolves. The members of Palmach followed orders to abandon their brethren in order to further the Zionist goal of the conquering of Paletsine. Never again will us Jews Shall betray our Brethren in the name of Zio- Nazism. add your comments

dear goldberg,,, by Do you go out> 9:58pm Wed Jul 2 '03 print comment Can you drink and take medication simultaneously? Do you become more dangerous consuming the combination of alcohol and pills in social outings? add your comments

party time by goldberg 7:24am Thu Jul 3 '03 print comment ..so here comes some more anti-zionist bullshit,you all are hideing your jew baiting behind anti-zionist rattleings--....how low can you get putting zionists and nazis in the same word and sentence..you all are a parady of a jew hater..hey come out with it. the truth will set you scumballs free. you then can tell us jews what you really think. and by the way, i can party pretty good, add your comments

FROM THE AUTHOR by Sheera Frenkel 6:08pm Thu Jul 3 '03 [email protected] print comment well- i chanced upon this lisiting by accident while i was searching for my article in the archives. i just wanted to add a note to the debate, in no way were these soldiers helping "terrorists" they working in solidarity movements with the palestinians towards a greater good that include both peoples. working on this story was extremly rewarding in light of all the negative media to prevail on the middle east. add your comments