ןינ'ג ןינ'ג טרסה תונרקה by לאוי (ומומ) המלש 6:38pm Mon Dec 16 '02 phone: 03-5183490 office@indymedia.org.il ןינ'ג טרסה לספנ ןורחאה עובשב י"ע ןה רודישו הנרקהל ןינ'ג תוזחמו םיטרס תרוקיבל הצעומה .םמצע םילבכה ינייכז י"ע ןהו תא תונירקמה תוצובק תונגראתמ .ץראה יבחר לכב טרסה !!!םתא םג ונגראתה print article רודישו הנרקהל ןינ'ג ןינ'ג טרסה לספנ ןורחאה עובשב י"ע ןהו תוזחמו םיטרס תרוקיבל הצעומה י"ע ןה .םמצע םילבכה ינייכז ןח םיאצומ אלש תולוק קיתשהל ןויסינבו הליספב קבאמה :םירושימ רפסמב השענ םימיוסמ םישנא יניעב דסומכ ןה ,הרוזנצב ירוביצו יתרושקת ,יטפשמ קבאמ .א .הז טרס לוספל התטלחהב ןהו .םילבכה ינייכזב ירוביצו יתרושקת ,יטפשמ קבאמ .ב ןויד ךות ,רשפאה לככ םיבר םימורופב טרסה תנרקה .ג םימיב לארשי תנידמב יוטיבה שפוח לש ללמואה ובצמ לע .הלא םיכושח הליספה דגנ לוק םירהל םיטרפלו םינוגראל םיארוק ונא .יוטיבה שפוח דעבו ?תושעל רשפא המ לוכיש ימ לכ .םכירוגמ םוקמב טרסה לש הנרקה ןגראל רשק ונמיע רוציל ןמזומ שיא 50 תוחפל לש הנרקה ןגראל :הידמידניאה רתאב ןמויב םיטרפה תא םישל ןבומכו indymedia.org.il דעלג תא שקבל 03-5183490 :םיפסונ םיטרפל add your comments

תיאלנ יתלב תונרתח by ביני 8:59am Tue Dec 17 '02 print comment םירחבנ םיקרפ ונירקת ילוא תונמדזה התואב השדחה תנייוצמה הרדסה ,"ןויצ ינקז לש םילוקוטורפה"מ .םיירצממ ,תתוועמ וא התיסמ אל איה "וינ'ג ןינ'ג" טרסה ומכ ."הירוטסיהל תיתונמוא תונשרפ תנתונ" איה .דופיק ינאו add your comments

םילשוריב ןרקוי ןינ'ג ןינ'ג טרסה by AIC 12:26pm Tue Dec 17 '02 address: םילשורי ,4 הכלמה ןויצמולש phone: 02-6241159 aicmail@alt-info.org print comment היצמרופניאל זכרמב ןרקוי ןינ'ג ןינ'ג טרסה הנרקהה רחאל .שדוחל 26ה ישימח םויב תיביטנרטלא .יאמבה םע ןויד םייקתי .זכרמה ידרשמל ורשקתה םיטרפל www.alternativenews.org add your comments

רחמ - "ןינ'ג ןינ'ג" טרסה לש האחמ תנרקה by יש 3:28pm Tue Dec 17 '02 phone: 058-484769 / 050-831158 print comment תנרקה םייקתת 20:00 העשב ,18.12.02 יעיבר םוי ,רחמ םולש הונב "ןינ'ג ןינ'ג" טרסה לש האחמ א"ת-םילשורי שיבכמ םידרוי : העגה תוארוה םינופו רוזמר םירבוע .עבש- ראב ןוויכל ןורטל ףלחמב .רשגל תתחתמ הלאמש דימו םולש-הונ ןוויכל הנימי רפכל הסינכב לאמשמ "הנבלה הנויה" םלואב הנרקהה 484769-058 לבנע :םיטרפל 694545-054 ידוא 831158-050 יש add your comments

יוטיבה שפוח by רורד 10:54am Wed Dec 18 '02 print comment שפוח לבא ,יוטיבה שפוח דעב םהש םיבשוח םיבר םישנא םירבדה תא דיגהל םדא לש תוכזה לע קבאהל אוה יוטיבה תא םירמואש םישנא לש תוכזה לע אל -םיכסמ ךניא םהלש תא חיטבהל ךרוצ ןיא ירה םהל -עומשל ךל םיענש המ לכ רבדל תלוכיה תדסוממה תרושקתה .תיביטקיבוא תרושקת רבד הזכ ןיא ואל - םיחטשב בצמהמ םיחוויד םוי לכ המילעמ וא עינצמ םהש םיעדוי םהש ללגב טושפ - הער הנווכ ללגב אקווד .םינותיע תוחפ הככ ורכמי ל,הצ רבוד םג ךכו ,יביטקייבוא טרס וניא ןינ'ג ןינ'ג םילוכי םתא , םירגובמ םישנא םתא םא .2 ץורע וא םיאור אל םתא םא .ןימאהל המל טילחהלו םלוכ תא תוארל היה אוה המ םכמצעב שחנהל םילוכי אל םתא ,והשימ .רמוא add your comments

ןינ'ג ןינ'ג by mopet 8:35am Thu Dec 19 '02 mopet@012.net.il print comment המב ברעתהל ורבע םימיבכ בוש טילחמ לארשיב דסממה רשאכ םירומא תולובג אלל הנידמה יבשותו יחרזא ,ונאש םירגוב ונא אמש םידחפמ םהש םושמ הלא הז ןיא ,תוארל לש התוינידמ תא וללשיש ולאכ תונקסמל עיגהל קיפסמ דחפמש , ויחרזאמ דחפמש רטשמב המוקמ הרוזנצ .לארשי .וגב םירבד שיש עדויש ,יתרבח קבאממו תרוקיבמ add your comments

Jenin, Jenin is not the freedom of speech by AMR 9:53pm Sun Dec 22 '02 print comment If Jenin, Jenin is the expression of freedom of speech so better for us all without the freedom of speech. Whoever do not understand the diference between criticisem and destruction is not deserving the right for freedome of speech. add your comments

anotr israeli supports Fascism by ta b yor govrt till t 12:42am Mon Dec 23 '02 print comment ``If Jenin, Jenin is the expression of freedom of speech so better for us all without the freedom of speech. Whoever do not understand the diference between criticisem and destruction is not deserving the right for freedome of speech``... an israeli supports Fascism... add your comments

``jenin jenin`` is an anti propoganda film. by zionist propoganda.. 1:14am Mon Dec 23 '02 print comment Truth does Not suit our propogada, let us shut it up. add your comments

The proof is undispute by AMR 12:53am Sun Dec 29 '02 print comment You and I were not been there... A balanced investigators already proved that "NO MASSACER has HAPPENED IN JENNIN” that is the bare truth, all the rest is a preoccupied opinions of some Palestinian supporters idiots and weak minded Israeli people. Wake up you idiots, look around you and understand what you are doing for the freedom of speech. People like you will bring the freedom of speech, the real criticism, to the ground, We need badly the freedom of speech but we do not need the destructors within. 23 Israeli soldiers and 55 Palestinian were killed in Jenin incident, is that called a massacre? That was a battle were the Israeli Army won (Naturally), that all (well not just “ALL”) that happened. The Palestinian deserves our support from a humanitarian reason and we should not defend kids, civilians’ murderers and suicide bombers. Who ever is doing that, supporting the murderous terrorists, is promoting violence and encourage the terrorist to proceed their criminal inhuman acts. The “Documentary” Jenin X and its supporters are doing just that, a destructive, inhuman, lies promoting activities. add your comments

jenin jenin has the stench of truth. by jenin jenin has the stench of truth. 4:02am Sun Dec 29 '02 print comment jenin jenin has the stench of truth... add your comments

If it's a lie - you REALLY have to watch it by Nimrod kerrett 7:15pm Sun Dec 29 '02 print comment Whether the movie is true, false, or at any other grey level of dishonesty, it WAS and WILL BE seen by many people outside Israel (aka Goyim :-) THEY saw it, you DIDN'T. Is this good policy? Maybe you can refute what they say or the way they say it? Maybe you have proof? Maybe you can even SUE the alleged bastards? HOW WILL YOU KNOW? It's not about the movie maker's freedom of SPEECH, but about YOUR freedom to be INFORMED. "Free you mind, and your ass will follow" -- Strick zzzen.com add your comments

The Context...The context... by AMR 9:21pm Mon Dec 30 '02 print comment To Nimrod Kerret, I would support your opinion warmly if not the “SMALL” issue of context. Israel is in a state of WAR with the Palestinians. What is fine (with me as well) in a peaceful times is very wrong in a war time and visa versa. It is like you are dismissing an order by your military commander (provided you are an army man and under army law) because you think that is better for you to be in the safety of your home for example, you just not suppose to do that in those specific circumstances. Those specific circumstances are in existence right now in Israel. The So called “Documentary” Jenin X is being wrongly promoter of ‘One sided’ opinion, therefore, in the existing situation between the Palestinians and Israel it is an act of traitors, plan and simple. In any other case I will welcome the movie. It already said (you know where): “In times like this even the wise man should be speechless” (That is a free translation from Hebrew)…. add your comments

Sorry, but I don't understand you by Nimrod Kerrett 11:08pm Mon Dec 30 '02 print comment I read again My comment, the YOUR comment, and I don't understand how they relate. Assuming someone is telling lies about me (ALL AROUND THE WORLD - mind you), I think it's a NECESSITY for me to know WHAT lies EXACTLY. ESPECIALLY at times of war etc. If there's a chance that I'm stupid enough to BELIEVE things that are outright lies, a relevant explanation SHOULD be issued by whoever KNOWS (or THINKS) it's a lie. Otherwise, I might see this movie in the UK by mistake and then what are you going to do with my poor soul? Quit "saving me from myself". Legalize information. It's about time we STARTED our journey towards democracy. We still have a long way to go before we can smirk and say "look ho democratic WE are while THEY aren't" :-) add your comments

No answer yet... by AMR 7:24am Tue Dec 31 '02 print comment I do not see any response from your side either… The context is not less important then the freedom of speech as a principle. What could be right in one time is wrong in the other one. The time is not right for that kind of Jenin X. You may view the movie one thousand times and yet not to understand that it is a lie. Somebody else that investigated the events professionally should tell you that, after all how you could possibly know that something is wrong in the presentation of this one sided opinions? As I initially said: “neither you nor I have been there” Democracy is not the garbage can of the western world, not everything is permitted in the name of the freedom of speech. In time of war, the Israeli-Palestinian war, the rules of behavior must be change as events progress. If you understand democracy as a permission to do whatever you wish to do then you are deadly wrong and must go back to school to sharpen up your knowledge. The democracy must preserve the right to defend, protect itself. In our case here the Israeli democracy must protect itself against the destructors within. As the Israeli supreme court stated today(regarding the “refusal to serve”: “We can not permit people to do whatever they would like to do in time of war, we can not built up sects in the nations, we will not allow the right to refuse…” that is a democracy. The banning of the so called “Documentary” has nothing to do with the freedom of speech, it ahs all to do with preserving the right rules of democracy. The freedom of speech for some is not standing against the right for survival of the others, the majority. If the majority right’s for survival is under threat then the freedom of speech should suppressed. Your misunderstanding, as well as some other minority groups, of the democracy’s fundamental rules in times of war, shows up clearly the need in such material’s supervision. On the other hand, as published and considering the present context, if the Jenin X “documentary” would bring responses from both sides in a balanced manner, after all it is a documentary, is it? I would be very glad to support its presentation to the Israeli public up front. As stated before, I will be very happy to have Jenin X, as is, all across Israel’s theaters in other times, times of peace, as already said, it is all a matter of timing and context. add your comments

the rule of law by rami 6:15pm Wed Jan 1 '03 print comment The legal system in Israel has decided not to screen the movie and that is the end of it - if you do not like it, there is a due process - appeal !!! Portraying this decision as an atempt to shut up people is pure nonsense and cheap propoganda. No one changed the law just to prevent Mr. Bachri's subjective and not necesseraly factual description of what he thinks happend in Jenin (Mr. Bachri chose to interview the same people that dreamed up the fictional massacre - so it is very easy to see that they have a bias), the law is made by our parlement members who reflect the people of the state of Israel. If you do not like the decision go to a court of law and appeal - if you can not win in a court of law it means that your case has no merits, hence all this hupla is pure propaganda and has nothing to do with the freedom of speech. add your comments

You can not win in a court of law by John Veldhuis 4:00pm Thu Jan 2 '03 print comment If you are not a colonist, a likud member or a (non-imprisoned) member of the IDF, you might have a hard time winning in an Israeli court of law. The banning of the movie makes clear that only Israeli propaganda is allowed, and not the other sides view. To me it doesn't matter how many people are killed. A crime against even only one child is a crime against humanity. add your comments

I find it shameful by AMR 3:18am Fri Jan 3 '03 print comment Oriana Fallaci on Anti-Semitism (April 12, 2002) I Find it Shameful To read the Original version in Italian Sull'antisemitismo I find it shameful that in Italy there should be a procession of individuals dressed as suicide bombers who spew vile abuse at Israel, hold up photographs of Israeli leaders on whose foreheads they have drawn the swasitka, incite people to hate the Jews. And who, in order to see Jews once again in the extermination camps, in the gas chambers, in the ovens of Dachau and Mauthausen and Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen et cetera, would sell their own mother to a harem. I find it shameful that the Catholic Church should permit a bishop, one with lodgings in the Vatican no less, a saintly man who was found in Jerusalem with an arsenal of arms and explosives hidden in the secret compartments of his sacred Mercedes, to participate in that procession and plant himself in front of a microphone to thank in the name of God the suicide bombers who massacre the Jews in pizzerias and supermarkets. To call them “martyrs who go to their deaths as to a party.” I find it shameful that in France, the France of Liberty-Equality-Fraternity, they burn synagogues, terrorize Jews, profane their cemeteries. I find it shameful that the youth of Holland and Germany and Denmark flaunt the kaffiah just as Mussolini’s avant garde used to flaunt the club and the fascist badge. I find it shameful that in nearly all the universities of Europe Palestinian students sponsor and nurture anti-semitism. That in Sweden they asked that the Nobel Peace Prize given to Shimon Peres in 1994 be taken back and conferred on the dove with the olive branch in his mouth, that is on Arafat. I find it shameful that the distinguished members of the Committee, a Committee that (it would appear) rewards political color rather than merit, should take this request into consideration and even respond to it. In hell the Nobel Prize honors he who does not receive it. I find it shameful (we’re back in Italy) that state-run television stations contribute to the resurgent antisemitism, crying only over Palestinian deaths while playing down Israeli deaths, glossing over them in unwilling tones. I find it shameful that in their debates they host with much deference the scoundrels with turban or kaffiah who yesterday sang hymns to the slaughter at New York and today sing hymns to the slaughters at Jerusalem, at Haifa, at Netanya, at Tel Aviv. I find it shameful that the press does the same, that it is indignant because Israeli tanks surround the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, that it is not indignant because inside that same church two hundred Palestinian terrorists well armed with machine guns and munitions and explosives (among them are various leaders of Hamas and Al-Aqsa) are not unwelcome guests of the monks (who then accept bottles of mineral water and jars of honey from the soldiers of those tanks). I find it shameful that, in giving the number of Israelis killed since the beginning of the Second Intifada (four hundred twelve), a noted daily newspaper found it appropriate to underline in capital letters that more people are killed in their traffic accidents. (Six hundred a year). I find it shameful that the Roman Observer, the newspaper of the Pope--a Pope who not long ago left in the Wailing Wall a letter of apology for the Jews--accuses of extermination a people who were exterminated in the millions by Christians. By Europeans. I find it shameful that this newspaper denies to the survivors of that people (survivors who still have numbers tattooed on their arms) the right to react, to defend themselves, to not be exterminated again. I find it shameful that in the name of Jesus Christ (a Jew without whom they would all be unemployed), the priests of our parishes or Social Centers or whatever they are flirt with the assassins of those in Jerusalem who cannot go to eat a pizza or buy some eggs without being blown up. I find it shameful that they are on the side of the very ones who inaugurated terrorism, killing us on airplanes, in airports, at the Olympics, and who today entertain themselves by killing western journalists. By shooting them, abducting them, cutting their throats, decapitating them. (There’s someone in Italy who, since the appearance of Anger and Pride, would like to do the same to me. Citing verses of the Koran he exorts his brothers” in the mosques and the Islamic Community to chastise me in the name of Allah. To kill me. Or rather to die with me. Since he’s someone who speaks English well, I’ll respond to him in English: “Fuck you.”) I find it shameful that almost all of the left, the left that twenty years ago permitted one of its union processionals to deposit a coffin (as a mafioso warning) in front of the synagogue of Rome, forgets the contribution made by the Jews to the fight against fascism. Made by Carlo and Nello Rossini, for example, by Leone Ginzburg, by Umberto Terracini, by Leo Valiani, by Emilio Sereni, by women like my friend Anna Maria Enriques Agnoletti who was shot at Florence on June 12, 1944, by seventy-five of the three-hundred-thirty-five people killed at the Fosse Ardeatine, by the infinite others killed under torture or in combat or before firing squads. (The companions, the teachers, of my infancy and my youth.) I find it shameful that in part through the fault of the left--or rather, primarily through the fault of the left (think of the left that inaugurates its congresses applauding the representative of the PLO, leader in Italy of the Palestinians who want the destruction of Israel)--Jews in Italian cities are once again afraid. And in French cities and Dutch cities and Danish cities and German cities, it is the same. I find it shameful that Jews tremble at the passage of the scoundrels dressed like suicide bombers just as they trembled during Krystallnacht, the night in which Hitler gave free rein to the Hunt of the Jews. I find it shameful that in obedience to the stupid, vile, dishonest, and for them extremely advantageous fashion of Political Correctness the usual opportunists--or better the usual parasites--exploit the word Peace. That in the name of the word Peace, by now more debauched than the words Love and Humanity, they absolve one side alone of its hate and bestiality. That in the name of a pacifism (read conformism) delegated to the singing crickets and buffoons who used to lick Pol Pot’s feet they incite people who are confused or ingenuous or intimidated. Trick them, corrupt them, carry them back a half century to the time of the yellow star on the coat. These charlatans who care about the Palestinians as much as I care about the charlatans. That is not at all. I find it shameful that many Italians and many Europeans have chosen as their standard-bearer the gentleman (or so it is polite to say) Arafat. This nonentity who thanks to the money of the Saudi Royal Family plays the Mussolini ad perpetuum and in his megalomania believes he will pass into History as the George Washington of Palestine. This ungrammatical wretch who when I interviewed him was unable even to put together a complete sentence, to make articulate conversation. So that to put it all together, write it, publish it, cost me a tremendous effort and I concluded that compared to him even Ghaddafi sounds like Leonardo da Vinci. This false warrior who always goes around in uniform like Pinochet, never putting on civilian garb, and yet despite this has never participated in a battle. War is something he sends, has always sent, others to do for him. That is, the poor souls who believe in him. This pompous incompetent who playing the part of Head of State caused the failure of the Camp David negotiations, Clinton’s mediation. No-no-I-want-Jerusalem-all-to-myself. This eternal liar who has a flash of sincerity only when (in private) he denies Israel’s right to exist, and who as I say in my book contradicts himself every five minutes. He always plays the double-cross, lies even if you ask him what time it is, so that you can never trust him. Never! With him you will always wind up systematically betrayed. This eternal terrorist who knows only how to be a terrorist (while keeping himself safe) and who during the Seventies, that is when I interviewed him, even trained the terrorists of Baader-Meinhof. With them, children ten years of age. Poor children. (Now he trains them to become suicide bombers. A hundred baby suicide bombers are in the works: a hundred!). This weathercock who keeps his wife at Paris, served and revered like a queen, and keeps his people down in the shit. He takes them out of the shit only to send them to die, to kill and to die, like the eighteen year old girls who in order to earn equality with men have to strap on explosives and disintegrate with their victims. And yet many Italians love him, yes. Just like they loved Mussolini. And many other Europeans do the same. I find it shameful and see in all this the rise of a new fascism, a new nazism. A fascism, a nazism, that much more grim and revolting because it is conducted and nourished by those who hypocritically pose as do-gooders, progressives, communists, pacifists, Catholics or rather Christians, and who have the gall to label a warmonger anyone like me who screams the truth. I see it, yes, and I say the following. I have never been tender with the tragic and Shakespearean figure Sharon. (“I know you’ve come to add another scalp to your necklace,” he murmured almost with sadness when I went to interview him in 1982.). I have often had disagreements with the Israelis, ugly ones, and in the past I have defended the Palestinians a great deal. Maybe more than they deserved. But I stand with Israel, I stand with the Jews. I stand just as I stood as a young girl during the time when I fought with them, and when the Anna Marias were shot. I defend their right to exist, to defend themselves, to not let themselves be exterminated a second time. And disgusted by the antisemitism of many Italians, of many Europeans, I am ashamed of this shame that dishonors my Country and Europe. At best, it is not a community of States, but a pit of Pontius Pilates. And even if all the inhabitants of this planet were to think otherwise, I would continue to think so add your comments

ערזמב ןינ'ג ,ןינ'ג תנרקה by KYLA B 6:40pm Tue Jan 7 '03 print comment ערזמ ץובקב םיעפומב םלואב ןרקוי ןינ'ג ,ןינ'ג טרסה 17:15 העשב ישימח םויב (הלופע דיל) ץראב יוטיבה שפוח אשונב יאמבה םע ןויד טרסה רחאל -829000-055ל העדוה וחליש םיפסונ םיטרפל add your comments

First is first by AMR 9:24am Fri Jan 10 '03 print comment First is first…. The terror must stop first, and then Israel (Not IDF…) will evacuate the West Bank. To understand the reason we should go only 2.5 years back to the South Lebanon evacuation (and then about 2500 years back). This evacuation considered by The Hisbulla as a victory. To be honest, IT IS a Hisbulla victory. The Israeli politicians ordered the IDF to run out of South Lebanon like thieves in the dark (and indeed it was a run in the dark). The politicians were that much influenced by the pressure within. If that pressure within is reminding us of something that is happen these days, it is not for nothing. The Palestinians were learning their lesson. They have learned that Israel is cracking under the pressure within and that is the time to take advantage of and to grab territorial and political advantage only by pressuring Israel as the Hisbulla did 2,5 years ago in south Lebanon. The Camp David negotiation between Barak and Yaser forced them for a giving up that they were not happy with, they wanted Israel to give up its standings but were not willing to give up their own. So the second intifada was viewed by them as the most convenient action to achieve in the intifada field whatever they have missed at the negotiation table. To be honest, I would do the same as the Palestinians did, opening the second intifada, Israel gave them all the reasons for. They have found the perfect excuse as the intifada’s starting point, the Sharon’s visit to El-Aktza mosque. Make no mistake the intifada were to be initiated with or without Sharon’s visit, it was all a matter of timing, nothing but (though a very foolish, ill calculated act from Sharon side as well as Barak that authorized the visit) According to their calculation they will crack Israel, based on the Lebanon experience fiasco in a matter of months, not even years. If Israel will evacuate the West Bank now, under the pressure of the terror and the pressure from within (usually by a week minded, naive, soup-brained people), Israel will loose all its power of recoiling it may have and the road to endless war on the 67 boarders will start immediately after. If we want peace, a long term peace, a steady peace we have to fight now to gain this peace later on. Any giving up now will be considered by the Palestinians and by our enemies the Arabs as a weakness that must be translated for territorial gain by them as a result. If we would like to preserve our freedom, Identity and ultimately survival we should stop the terror in any means possible (in the frame of the law) and then, only then to negotiate peace terms. The above consideration are not hidden from the Phatach and Hamas leaders, that is the exact reason why they are doing all they can to proceed with the terror acts. Only a true peace will be maid between us and the Palestinians if our partner to peace the Palestinians will understand that Israel will not give up on the terror’s diminishing. That is the reason Israel should be strong from the inside. That is the reason why the traitors, the collaborators and the Quislings within are so dangerous to the existence of the Israeli nation, their naiveness is putting our lives and existence in danger. Historically we have suffered several Holocausts, The destruction of the first temple, the first Diaspora, the destruction of the second temple, the second Diaspora, the European Holocaust 50 years ago and all that happen in between. We can not afford another Holocaust. If our reaction is sometime to the extreme it should be understood. We are the only surviving nation that experienced that many attempts for destruction and survived, that what we are doing now, surviving. We may be stronger then the Palestinians but that is only an illusion, the Arab world combined with the Anti-Semites world-wide are many times stronger then us. The History lesion taught us a very bitter lesson; we should take the utmost effort not to let the history to repeat itself in our case again. add your comments